Can social media be a spiritual stumbling block for children?

Can social media be a spiritual stumbling block for children? Chris McKenna from Protect Young Eyes joins us to tackle this thought-provoking question, offering a perspective through a biblical lens. We explore the potential spiritual and emotional challenges posed by social media, urging Christian parents to be vigilant about the dark influences that may accompany digital engagement. Reflecting on Philippians 4:8, we inspire parents to guide their children toward focusing on virtues that truly enrich the soul. This conversation is a call to action for parents striving to uphold their spiritual values in a world dominated by digital pressures.

We also offer practical advice for navigating the digital landscape with your children, discussing safer tech options like the Bark phone, Gab, TruMe, Pinwheel, and MM Guardian. Learn how these tools, along with smartwatches and tablets, can serve as transitional devices under parental supervision. Chris shares insights on maintaining open communication with your kids about their digital experiences and reinforces the importance of grace and forgiveness in parenting. By acknowledging past missteps, we encourage taking actionable steps toward a more conscious digital parenting journey. Join us for an insightful discussion on safeguarding your children's well-being in this digital age.

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Transcript

Mrs. Erin Kay: All right, welcome to our fourth installment of our interview series with Chris McKenna from Protect Young Eyes. We are so grateful to have you with us having this discussion about technology from a biblical worldview. So welcome, Chris. We're so happy you're here today.
 
Mr. Chris McKenna: Thank you, Erin, we are rolling. I love these conversations! Little snippets, because it's a lot taking all at once, but little bits.
 
Mrs. Erin Kay: Yeah, little bits. And what's beautiful is, if you didn't catch the first three episodes, you can go back and listen to them. Or if there was a nugget in there that you couldn't remember exactly what was gone over, you can go back and read it again or listen to it again. We're so thankful for that. All right, so let's just dive right in today. We're going to kind of hit a hot topic... hit a hot topic. Is it sinful to give our children social media? What are your thoughts?
 
Mr. Chris McKenna: Well, and you're asking this I know because I shared with you that I recently wrote about that question. So I do some more personal writing in a space called Substack. It's a blogging platform and you can find me there. It's called Almost Always Analog, that's the name of my space. Almost Always Analog, because I believe most of the best things for us as humans, and especially for our children, are almost always analog. Because I believe most of the best things for us as humans, and especially for our children, are almost always analog. We're made in the physical world, we're best in the physical world, we learn best physically holding things right in our hands in the classroom. Almost Always Analog.

And there I wrote "is it sinful to give your child social media?" And it created quite a stir. But what's interesting is so it got a lot of reaction, but mostly from people who were like it's about time someone asked that question that if someone was feeling really horrible about me asking that question and I elicited a guilt response, they're probably not as likely to comment because that causes us to isolate and to pull back, so there's probably a greater chance I'm only going to hear from people who are giving me yes and amen to that. But here's the deal, Erin. I believe that Christianity in general, particularly the United States Christian Church, is not doing its job to speak forcefully enough about the harms of social media and the darkening of souls, the distraction of our children. How many digital spaces encourage us to hear the still small voice of the Holy Spirit? God wasn't in the earthquake, God wasn't in the fire, God was only in the still small voice of the crevice right. And how many of our digital spaces, how many of our newsfeeds, how many of our social media feeds encourage a posture of hearing the still small voice of God? And that's us as adults, with a frontal cortex that supposedly can isolate, decide and make certain decisions.

Right, our limbic system, as you know you know as a therapist, but others may not know right, we have three functional areas of the brain the part that kind of keeps us alive, the part that helps us process relationships and connection emotions. Right, that's the limbic system. It's the part that's on fire during adolescence. And then we have the thinking part of our brain, the frontal cortex, that tries to help us make sense of the other two. Think of it as like the upstairs part trying to put the brakes on the part that's down below, the fight or flight or freeze. Right, it's trying to help us process more logically whether we should fight, flight or freeze instead of just jumping at the first one.

And so we need to remember that if we constantly put our kids inside of digital spaces that are meant to elicit emotions, that are meant to shock, that are meant to engage, that are meant to fire up that limbic system, is that the best thing for our kids? Because, I got to tell you, we are called to lead our children toward holiness. Right? And when you give your kid a smartphone, when you give your kid social media, ask yourself does it pass the Philippians 4.8 test? Right? Paul lays out pretty clearly what we're supposed to think about, right? "Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things." So I want us to step back and ask the hard question, because I do not see enough good, Jesus-loving Christian parents appreciating the darkness that they are putting in the hands of their children, all for the sake of fitting in.
 
Mrs. Erin Kay: Yeah, and that was something we mentioned in our discussions about the fitting in, the fitting in piece and the allowing children to have technology at whatever age. You know it seems to be getting younger and younger, so that they don't feel left out. So speak a little bit to that with that discussion that a parent could be having with a child, the child saying I'm feeling left out because all my friends are in this group text or group chat and I'm left out, so I need a phone to fit in.
 
Mr. Chris McKenna: Okay, so did that work for them when they were kids? Like you know? I just I stepped back for a minute and say I and I'm going to start off. I step back for a minute and say I'm going to start off, I'm going to progress from "I hear you" to "think about what you're saying". All right, so of course I hear you and, like all things in parenting, it's always easier when there's a group, a community, a tribe that's rowing in the same direction.

So we as parents, to intentionally surround ourselves, our families and our children with other families who agree with these positions and to stand firm and hold your ground. I get that. That's why organizations that try to create hacks and families that come together to agree on these things whether it's Wait Until 8th, which should be after 8th, get into high school. Or the smartphone free childhood movement that birthed in the UK earlier this year that has taken the WhatsApp kind of international world by storm. These are the collective action groups of people that when you come together, everything's always easier. That idea of collective action has been popularized by, again, Jonathan Haidt in his book the Anxious Generation, where he talks about when everybody is moving in the same direction, then you decrease the penalty that you feel of being the only one who doesn't, because you raise the bar up and now you want to be a part of that bar instead of the other ones. So, yes, we need that and I want the schools to be encouraging classes of younger kids and elementary school groups to come together to agree to delay. I get all of that. But as a scientist right, the chief science officer from a secular organization, the American Psychological Association, a gentleman that I spent some time in Europe with earlier this year this is his quote he said "there are no findings showing harm to children who stay off of social media. In fact, some emerging evidence suggests that the most socially competent kids are refraining from using these platforms." I would say the most, not just socially competent, but spiritually competent, relationally competent right, educationally competent right.

We can look at other studies from the program for student assessment, which looked at almost 700,000 students age 15 and learning outcomes in math and science and reading. We looked at kids who had lower amounts of screen time during the day, how, in some cases, that caused those kids with the least amount to test two grades higher than their peers. There's all kinds of things that are swirling around us as parents that are screaming wait, wait, wait and again, looking through the lens of risk, go back and listen to episodes one, two, wait, right. And again looking through the lens of risk, go back and listen to episodes one, two, three and four. You'll hear me say over and over again I look at this through risk. The risk of harm in giving it still outweighs the risk of harm in not giving it right. If you're looking at this balance, another thing I sometimes say to parents I think kind of shocks us back into okay is, you are more responsible for your child's future wellness than their current happiness.

I think we're setting up too many kids for future problems by trying to make them happy today with some of these digital decisions, and so I just I want us to think critically about these things. That's kind of that's not even the sinful side of it, that's just like, just think critically about it. And since you've said many times you "wished it was never around when you were a kid", why do we wish it upon our own kids, like I, just I want us to think very critically about these things, not even, yes, from a spiritual perspective, but even take that out for a minute and think about it from a developmental perspective. Go back and listen to the previous episode about too much too soon, right, these kinds of things. I want us to be careful that we're not expecting children with children's brains, who often behave like children and we get mad at them when they are put in adult spaces. That's not their fault, that's us, and we would have done it too.

Mrs. Erin Kay: Sure, sure, yeah. It's definitely different than when we were growing up. So what would you say if the argument came up, or the concern pushed back, however you want to frame it of okay, I understand, wait, wait, wait. So, but I don't want my child to go crazy with social media after they graduate or they leave, or they have access to something. So I want to give it to them a little bit at a time now so that they don't go wild and crazy with it.
 
Mr. Chris McKenna: Okay. So if something is harmful, is a little bit of it okay. So you first have to ask yourself the question is social media harmful to children? If the answer is yes, then I think that answers the next question "Would I want my child to practice a harmful thing while with me?" You know, maybe...

I have parents, I have this conversation with them all the time, and so I do talk with them about what I call the fail small approach, right? So maybe you wait until age 16 and you say, okay, that's as far as we can wait. And now we're going to wrap the layers of protection around them that I covered in episode two. We're going to do the things in a tech ready home that I talked about in episode one. We're going to do all those things. We're going to give them social media at 16. We're going to kind of walk alongside them. Let them maybe fail small with us so we can teach them. Okay, I think that that can work.

But for some kids, if you understand the brain, you understand your child. For some kids, 16 might still be too young. So I think we always have to ask the bigger question about holiness, about goodness, about what is best for our kids, which goes back to that one post, right. So those are some of the big questions that I put in that post, Erin, we must ask ourselves these questions:

Will social media or a smartphone cause my child to stumble? Will social media show my child content that's too much, too soon? Will social media show my child a steady stream of images and videos that are the opposite of noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, excellent or praiseworthy? Will social media or having access to a smartphone prevent my child from hearing the whispers of the Holy Spirit? Will social media or smartphone degrade my child's relationship with God?

I want us to ask these questions when making this decision and if we can ask those questions and then say "not that much", so that those things aren't going to happen as much because of all these things that have mitigated the risk, okay, great, then walk alongside them. I just this is a decision that must be made so carefully and with a bit of fear and trembling, while we're doing it with a whole lot of prayer and a whole lot of involvement. You don't just give a child social media. There's so much that's wrapped up in it.
 
Mrs. Erin Kay: Those questions are excellent and that's the beauty of having this recording is because, as our parents, you know, grow with their children you know we've got K-3 all the way through 12, they can have these questions to ask themselves and to have open dialogue with other adults, with their spouse and even with their, with their child, having those mature conversations with these questions. Those are excellent questions to ask. So, thank you, thank you for that. What would you say to parents of younger children, elementary age? I know Messenger Kids is a real big way of communication with younger children. What would you say to them? Because that's social media, but it could be seen more as a text app.
 
Mr. Chris McKenna: Yeah, I mean, I think that that could be used. I think that could be used. Okay, I think it kind of dips their toe in social media, maybe too soon. That's where I prefer a device like, say, the Bark phone, which you can fully monitor all texting between kids, right, so it blocks out and monitors for certain keywords that are shared. Or you can block so that photos can't be attached or things like that, right? So I'm trying to keep them out of spaces that I don't trust. I'll be honest, there is nothing that Meta has ever touched that I trust as a company. I don't trust anything that Zuckerberg says or that they produce, because their history compels me not to trust them, and so I'd rather put them inside of a communication space that I don't have those feelings toward, right, so it might be something that is fully monitored, like Bark, where they're texting with other kids to learn how that looks for a little while. But that's what I would say.
 
Mrs. Erin Kay: Yeah, so what are some of the devices that you mentioned the Bark phone but what are some of the devices and programs that you would recommend to ease families into this digital world?
 
Mr. Chris McKenna: So there are kid friendly. You know, for everyone. In the United States we have the largest assortment of kid designed devices that are out there. So there's the Bark phone, there's Gabb, there's True Me, there's Pinwheel and then there's MM guardian. Those are like the five kids safe phones that all have different features. They do a lot of the same things but at different price points and different features that you can read about. We have a whole breakdown of all the different kid devices that are out there. You know, from a device perspective that's okay.

Some parents want to give a hand-me-down iPhone. Can you make an iPhone into a dumber device? Yeah, but it's still an iPhone. An iPhone is really horrible at parental controls like really horrible at parental controls, and there are backdoors everywhere and it's still a supercomputer, so we never take it for granted. I would just rather an iPhone not be a kid's first internet-connected device, if at all possible. There's dumb phones that are out there more and more dumb phones that are out there that you can get, Nokia and others, but they're not as safe as you might think because you can't monitor them. They often have browsers that you can't filter, so it's actually still got a ton of porn on them. You just can't get social media. But you've only solved half of the equation right there. So these are all things for parents to consider that we've, you know, written about. But I, you know, maybe you start with a watch and maybe from there, right. So Bark has a watch coming, Gabb has a watch, Gizmo has a watch through Verizon, there's all kinds of different smart watches that are out there just as a way to sort of test that kind of communication. Or maybe you start with a tablet of some kind that is owned by you.

Kids never have their own devices Like parents, right? No kid, I don't care if they're 17, no child in your home is an owner of an internet connected device. They're all owned by parents and you're just nice enough to let them use them. That idea of ownership, I think, is really important. You always have access, you can always get into it. You don't want to. I mean, no parent loves being the internet police, but could you get into it whenever you wanted, absolutely, all the time, anytime.

So those are some things that I would say for that first decision. In fact, I know this won't time-wise, people will listen to this at different times, so when I say in a couple of days, that's not necessarily relative to right now, but just know that we are shipping a post that actually answers this exact question on social media, and we have a related Google Doc that lays out all the different options that are out there that we're gonna keep constantly updated all over the world, right, no matter what country you're from, this Google Doc will have a way for you to determine what device would work best for your kids. Whether you are in South Africa, Australia or America, we lay out all the different options that are out there so you can decide what that first device needs to be.
 
Mrs. Erin Kay: Oh, that is fantastic. That is so helpful and practical, really kind of the nuts and bolts of it. So thank you for sharing those options.  As we wrap up this episode, we're going to repeat again what we've done in all the other episodes. So what would you say to the parent that is so thankful for this conversation and this information, who has just had their eyes wide opened and the calluses fallen off a little bit more, but they don't know what to do next? What would you say to them?
 
Mr. Chris McKenna: Well, I'm going to say something different than what I've said in the first four conversations or three, wherever one we're on right now, but in the previous ones so I think it's three I've talked about just do something and pick one thing. Pick one thing and then talk about the one thing. So let's pick one thing, talk about the one thing. For this one, I probably have asked some questions, especially for parents who have already given a device or given social media that have made you maybe unsure about that decision or maybe regret a decision that you made and we can't do anything about that. I don't want you to, I mean we can, but I don't want to just go smash your kid's phone.  That doesn't, that doesn't solve anything. Instead, I want you to own that with them.

If you gave a device too soon and they're going probably let them have social media too early, or I shouldn't have given them a device as soon as I did, then apologize. I mean sit down next to your kid and say you know, I've learned some things. I probably put you into this too soon. I'm sorry if that caused you to see things or experience things that you weren't ready for. If that's happened, that's not your fault. That's my fault and I'm sorry I didn't do a better job of helping you navigate or preparing you. But just know that if you ever bring any of those situations to me, two things: I'll never be mad and you'll never be in trouble.  So I would start there with this episode, if I've said something that's maybe made you feel a little bit of regret.
 
Mrs. Erin Kay: Oh, that is so helpful. That is so helpful because you know we are modeled the grace and forgiveness of our Lord, and sometimes it can be hard to do that as parents when we have a realization that we've maybe not made the best decision for our kids. So thank you for reiterating that to our listeners. Alright, so we're going to wrap up this episode and we will see everyone on our final episode with Chris McKenna with Protect Young Eyes. We look forward to collaborating with you then.